It’s been close to a year since I left the church I had attended for 17 years. That parting also marked my parting with conservative Evangelical Christianity after 35 years, with which I’d been involved since I was 5 years old. (Others still in Evangelicalism have documented its current problems, so I won’t open that particular can of worms).
I attended a fundamentalist, King James only, independent baptist school, from Kindergarten through 8th grade. I attended conservative Baptist churches all through childhood, my teenage years, college, and my adult life. That was the only world I knew, and I spent most of that time thinking that Christians outside of that world were lesser Christians if they were Christian at all.
It’s amazing how much reading the Bible for yourself can open your mind. As I studied the Bible, read more about the history of the Church and Christianity, and prayed and meditated on what I’d learned, I became more and more dissatisfied and disillusioned with the tradition in which I had lived for so long: the legalism, the anti-intellectualism, the politicizing of Christianity (good Christians are Republicans, you know), the heavy emphasis on sin and law and little emphasis on grace, the focus on all the things Christians aren’t supposed to do and little focus on what Christians are supposed to do, i.e. love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself.
The last couple of years I spent at my former church were particularly trying for me. Lest you think I was one of those church members that just showed up on Sunday and parked it in a pew, here’s some of the things I did at that church:
- Sound engineer for Sunday morning services, Christmas, and easter programs for 17 years
- Prayer room volunteer
- Taught an adult sunday school class
- Taught multiple sunday night discipleship training classes
- Led a reading group
- Led a FAITH evangelism team
In short, I was involved. But as the years passed I had more an more conflicts with other church members. A few examples:
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The college class at my Church put on a “Creation vs. Evolution” seminar. (I’ll let you guess which side they came down on). In the Q&A session after the first class I asked some very hard questions, questions the college students were unable to answer. I suggested that just maybe Genesis 1 and 2 were not meant to be literal, scientific accounts of creation. The next week they brought in a guy who taught an adult Sunday school class at the church. After the class session he proceeded to grill me for 45 minutes on whether I was really saved or not.
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I taught a 16 week Sunday school class on the book of Revelation. It went over really well, and the minister of education agreed that it would make a good Sunday night discipleship training class. At the fourth session of that Sunday night class, someone in the class, apropos of what I don’t remember, stated that he didn’t see how anyone could “believe in evolution.” I replied that I thought that the scientific evidence was pretty strong for evolution, that Christians held many differing views on the subject, and that it wasn’t an issue on which someone’s salvation depended. A couple of people in the class asked me respectful questions, which I answered, then steered the discussion back to Revelation. I didn’t think anything else about it until I got a call from the minister of education the next day saying that he needed to meet with me. Some members of my class had gone to the pastor and complained about what I said about evolution. (The complainers didn’t come directly to me, as Jesus commanded – Mat 18:15. Funny thing, that). I had a good discussion with the pastor, we agreed to disagree on the topic, and that was that. Except that half of my class didn’t show up for the last four sessions. (And it was the younger half of the class. The older, 55 and up, group stayed. Go figure). One of the students in that class wouldn’t even meet my gaze when we passed in the hallway at church after that.
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Got called into a meeting with the associate pastor because someone had seen me drinking a beer (horrors!) with my hot wings at a local restaurant. The complainant didn’t come directly to me (again), but they thought such behavior was inappropriate for someone who was a Sunday school teacher at our church.
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Got called into a meeting with the associate pastor because of a “Believers for Barack” bumper sticker on my car. (Full disclosure: I had voted for the Republican candidate for President in every election since I was old enough to vote. George W. disappointed me over the last couple of years of his term, and I was not happy with the Republican presidential ticket. Of the choices available, I thought Obama would make the better president.) Anyway, some church members took offense at my bumper sticker and went to the associate pastor to complain. (Again, didn’t come to me directly, as commanded by Jesus. See a pattern here?) One complainant was so incensed he jabbed a finger in the associate pastor’s chest and angrily exclaimed, “no person who supports that man should be allowed to teach in this church! What are you going to do about it!” The associate pastor was very nice about it and just wanted to let me know what some people were saying about me. I told him to please tell those people that I would be happy to talk with them, and he said he’d relay that message. I’ll let you guess how many people called me.
In all of the above incidents the pastor and associate pastor were very gracious to me. They never gave me an ultimatum and never condemned me. They offered suggestions and allowed us to charitably agree to disagree where needed. I have no complaints about how they treated me.
Except.
In my conversations with them, the issue of whether I was right or wrong, whether my accusers were right or wrong, whether what I was doing was biblical or not, or what was best for the Kingdom was rarely if ever brought up. Their primary concern was always, “how does your behavior reflect on this Church.” The concern was not that I had a reputation as a good Christian; it was that that my behavior reflected the image that the Church wanted to project to the community. That attitude always disturbed and saddened me.
(Over the years I had a number of people tell me, when they found out what church I attended, that I and my wife didn’t seem like “that church’s” kind of people. I think I finally came to understand what they meant).
The last couple of incidents occurred near the end of 2008. I was turning forty in a couple of months, so, probably like most people nearing that age, I was taking stock of my life. I was thinking about where I had been and where I was going in my career, my marriage, and my religious life. I was very happy with my job and my marriage, but in thinking about my religious life, one phrase kept coming up over and over again in my mind. It was from one of the Lethal Weapon movies. The situation is getting a bit heated as it does in those movies, and Murtaugh (played by Danny Glover) says:
I’m getting to old for this sh*t.
I mean, seriously! I’m almost forty and I’m still having to look over my shoulder to see who’s going to see me having a beer or glass of wine with my dinner. To worry about who’s going to think I’m not a Christian (or at least a bad Christian) because of the bumper sticker on my car. To worry about who’s going to see me going into an R-rated movie? To have to worry about someone thinking I’m going to hell because I actually learned some science, actually studied the Bible, and know that Genesis isn’t a science textbook. To have to worry about whose opprobrium I would incur because I didn’t behave like they thought a Christian ought to behave.
No. Not any more. I was done with living like that.
I’m sure that some well-meaning Christian will whine, “What about your witness?” Those things I mentioned above have jack squat to do with my witness. My witness is not to other Christians who want to enforce man-made, legalistic rules and call them “proper Christian behavior.” My “witness” is to all the unbelievers out there who need Christ’s love and God’s grace, and don’t need a set of asinine and unnecessary rules to follow. They don’t care what bumper sticker I have on my car or what I drink with my dinner. They only care that I show them Jesus and share the Gospel by loving them as Christ loved me.
I think it must have been the same for Martin Luther when he finally came to despair because he couldn’t keep all the man-made rules the Church had invented and told him he had to follow. He’d had enough, and he realized that not only was it impossible to keep all those rules, but that he didn’t have to!. That we all stand as sinners before the cross of Christ with no hope but the blood of Jesus and the Grace of God. That our job is not to be man-pleasers but God-pleasers.
“Too old for this sh*t.” Damn straight, Murtaugh.
Am I angry about all this. Yeah, maybe just a little. But darn it, I think it’s a justified anger. For all the years that Law was emphasized and Grace was minimized. For all the years that I was made to feel like I wasn’t a “good Christian” unless I followed somebody’s “rules of good behavior.” For all the years I was taught it was more important what other Christians thought about me than how well I was following Jesus’s commandments. Yeah, I think I’m allowed a little righteous anger, and maybe a little sadness for all those people who turned away or were turned away from Christianity because they weren’t offered simply love and grace but grace plus rules and regulations.
I hold no grudges, and I still love the people at my old church. I’m thankful for the good things I learned from them over the years and the good relationships I had, and still have, with some of the church members. But I couldn’t live in that environment any more.
I moved to a Lutheran church a little shy of a year ago. I’ve probably grown more there in the past year than I have in the past 10, and I’ve learned what grace really means and what it means to live under grace. But I’ve gone on long enough, and that’s a story for another time.
Interesting story. I can sure relate to a lot of it.
When I first realized that I couldn’t counter all the scientific arguments for evolution, I was scared even to tell my wife. Since I’m a church history buff and the early Christians put a lot of emphasis on God’s testimony to us through nature, it wasn’t scary for me to believe nature. It was scary, however, to face Christians with something like that.
I love the zeal of the strict fundamentalists; I’m disappointed regularly by what the zeal is for.
Intense zeal for Christ combined with liberty and mercy is a rare combination.
“He has shown you, o man, what is good and what the Lord requires of you: but to do justice, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.”
Posted by Paul Pavao on March 18th, 2010.
Ken, this is a great post. I had the priviledge of worshipping in your church a few months ago when my Episcopal choir joined with your choir singing an anthem.
I was a bit surprised to see you at a Lutheran church, but it was a GOOD surprise. If I remember correctly, the gentleman sitting beside you seemed surprised to see me singing with an Episcopal choir.
My wife and I went through a similar situation as you described about five years ago. We had been very involved in our church for nearly 25 years: singing in the choir, directing children’s music, serving on numerous committees, teaching Sunday school, serving as a Deacon . . . well, you get the drift. However, it became obvious that it was time to pull up roots and move on. I’ve often said that we joined that church the day before my daugher was born and left the day she got married.
Often times I have wished that we made the move when we were 40 instead of 50, but God’s timing is much better than our timing.
Your blog drew so many parallels to my own life. Thank you for sharing your story.
Posted by John Crenshaw on March 19th, 2010.
It’s too bad that you did the pendulum swing from one extreme to another. This is what happens so often to those who break out of extreme fundamentalism. For what it’s worth, here’s a piece I did on those exiting fundamentalism:
http://reformingbaptist.blogspot.com/2008/01/exiting-fundamentalism.html
Posted by Reforming Baptist on March 19th, 2010.
Actually, I didn’t swing from extreme to the other. I think I’ve found the proper balance. I can honestly say I haven’t fallen victim to any of the errors listed in your post. Sadly though, I know people who have left fundamental churches that have fallen into one or more of those errors. Thanks for sharing.
Posted by admin on March 19th, 2010.
Congratulations Kenneth!
You’ve quite adequately put into words the emotions that accompany this sometimes “evolutionary” process of coming face to face with Grace; and the realization that it stands almost in direct opposition to the Americanized gospel of legalism. (Republicans = Pharisees)
Not only was I too old to put up with any longer, I had grown much too weary trying to fulfill its demands.
Posted by Jonathan Sawrie on March 19th, 2010.
Hi Ken,
Here’s the only part that I don’t get. What about sin? What about abstaining from sin?
Grace is great – trust me I know full well – but without sin, there can be no grace. How can one repent without sin?
Not to mention the doctrines of baptismal regeneration, real presence, infant baptism, etc.
I will absolutely agree that many fundamentalists tend to be legalistic in many ways – but a bunch of the stuff Lutherans tend to believe isn’t Biblical, and you know it.
I don’t agree in walking away from doctrinal truth because of worldly conveniences.
Posted by Bob Nolan on March 19th, 2010.
Abstaining from sin had nothing to do with all the rules I supposedly violated in the fundamentalist environment in which I lived. That was kind of the point of my post: trying to enforce rules over and above what the Bible teaches.
I didn’t walk away from doctrinal truth; I walked toward it and embraced it. The doctrines you mention are all quite Biblical, though obviously you disagree. We just interpret the Bible differently, and that’s okay. Thank goodness grace means we wont have to pass a theology exam to enter heaven.
Posted by admin on March 20th, 2010.
Love your post. Grace is controversial, but once your mind and heart have been expanded by it there’s no going back. Although, those who stay behind will beg you to get back in their box of rules. Grace is scary for some people. They don’t trust it. They think it will cause them to sin more. But, Grace makes you want to please Him. Like Vestal used to say, “I just don’t want to hurt His feelings.” Fear controls. Love compels.
That’s all.
Mark Lowry
Posted by Mark Lowry on March 20th, 2010.
Well, I’m certainly glad that our paths crossed while at church together b/c you rock.
Posted by TJ on March 20th, 2010.
I very much enjoyed your post. I do have to ask..what are your views on salvation? That is not meant to be mean or controversial. I too grew up in an independent baptist church. And although I still attend one, it’s nothing like it used to be..we are a loving, welcoming, kind church. We seem to take in the ones who have been wounded at other churches. We use the NIV bible as well as KJV (some just prefer that, but not in a controversial way), we sing hymns and praise choruses, we wear jeans and sneakers to church…even shorts. HA HA But my point is..we have grown, and with growth comes acceptance, kindness and love regardless of your background/issues/past. We are definately not like the other independent baptist churches in our area. And I believe that is because we, as a congregation, have grown and realize legalism is not what’s important. We no longer dwell on what we can’t do as christians, and instead, focus on the good we can/should do as christians. We all need Grace..we are all sinful…we all have fallen, we have all made mistakes..but we don’t have to beat ourselves up trying to live up to the standards/rules of others. We can NEVER measure up. That’s where Grace steps in. We don’t have to be perfect. We can’t be! Our short comings/failures/sins are covered by grace, if we have accepted Christ as our personal Savior. Do you believe in salvation. Do you believe people have to be saved to get into heaven? I am in NO way trying to start an argument. Just asking your view point.
Posted by Kelli on March 22nd, 2010.
Answer to both questions: yes, and yes.
Posted by admin on March 23rd, 2010.
Okay, I have been thinking about your post for about a week now. I have to admit I was very discouraged by what you had to say. I too, like Kelli wondered how you viewed the doctrine of salvation. I am thankful that you responded to her. I do have a few questions for you.
How can you have a literal view on the doctrine of salvation, when you do not have the same literal view on creation? Sure there are places in the Bible that are not literal but Genesis is written in a definitive manner.
When it comes to “getting caught” drinking a beer, you must have known that church leaders would frown on that before you did it. Sometimes being a leader means forgoing things that would make others less close to God “stumble”.
The Obama bumper sticker, I disagree with your choice but you knew it was a lightning rod in the first place. I would never question a person’s salvation over their choice for a political candidate but I would wonder about doctrinal differences.
To you and Mark Lowry both,
Grace is a wonderful thing and for too long the independent Baptists did not always treat if with the due respect, but on the flip side, Grace is not God’s greatest attribute, Holiness is. “Be ye Holy, for I am Holy” and Paul also warns about Grace being used to trump the other attributes of God. “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.”
Thank you for your time.
Posted by Joshua Cottrell on March 23rd, 2010.
@Joshua, your questions probably deserve longer answers than I have time to give, and they’re probably better discussed in person than online, but here’s the short version.
Re literal creation and literal salvation: I’m not sure what a “literal” view of salvation means. I certainly disagree with the “If you don’t take Genesis 1 and 2 literally, you might as well throw out the rest of the Bible” position. Re Genesis clearly being intended literally, well, we wouldn’t have any disagreement if that was the case.
The Genesis creation accounts were written with a theological purpose and not as a literal scientific account. The concerns of the author of Genesis were not those of 21st century American Christians. Recommended reading: Conrad Hyers’ The Meaning of Creation, Tremper Longman III’s How to Read Genesis, and Gary Rendsburg’s The Book of Genesis.
Re getting caught drinking a beer. I made no secret of my feelings on the matter of alcohol when I signed on as a leader. The “cause someone to stumble” argument doesn’t hold water, in my opinion. It’s used by people who can’t find a sound Biblical argument to back their cultural prejudices, and it can be used, and has, to try to prohibit any behavior with which a person disagrees. There is no biblical warrant for a total prohibition on the consumption of alcohol. See this study for a comprehensive overview of the Bible’s teaching on alcohol.
Re Obama bumper sticker. No, I didn’t know that having that sticker on my car would cause some people to call for my expulsion from the church. I expected better of them. More fool me.
Re doctrine. Jesus didn’t call us to believe in a doctrine. He called us to believe in a Person, Himself. Salvation doesn’t depend on holding the right doctrines, only believing in Jesus. See John 3:16 and Rom 10:9.
Re Grace. The Bible nowhere states what God’s greatest attribute is. In fact the notion that God has a greatest attribute is nonsensical if you believe that God is the perfect being. Being perfect, he can have no attribute greater than any other; all his attributes are equally perfect.
The above topics aren’t something I care to get into an extended discussion about. I’ve found that such discussions are not a productive use of anyone’s time, given that we start with differing basic presuppositions that neither one of us are likely to change. We can agree to disagree, and that’s fine. Thankfully, there’s no theology exam to get into heaven.
Thanks for sharing.
Posted by admin on March 23rd, 2010.
Isn’t it a weird kind of freedom many churches seem to practice? Freedom is dangerous and risky. But Jesus went to a lot of trouble to make us free…indeed. Who are we to try and undo what He has done?
Posted by Daniel Britt on March 24th, 2010.
This is all a very interesting discussion.:-)
Posted by Kelli on March 25th, 2010.
A couple of questions, Ken:
1. How do you square Christianity, (even emergent, post-modern, the Bible is a metaphysical poem, let’s make up doctrine as we go brand of Christianity,) with Obama’s horrific and infanticidal opposition to the Born Alive Protection Act.
2. Did Jesus hold to a literal view of the creation account? (Mark 10:6) Hint…..be careful about criticizing those who hold to the literal view. If you require science to affirm Biblical doctrine (a problem in and of itself according to Habbakuk 2:4 and Romans 1:17,) you might study Chuck Missler’s series on Genesis. Be ready to invest some time, he takes 9 one hour sessions to go through creation week explaining how the passages relate to the latest in cosmological science.
Fundamentalists often confuse preferences with doctrine, but that is a refutation of their preferences, not the doctrines. Be careful you don’t reject the doctrines while you are rejecting their preferences. The fundamentalists are right in their contention that God governs by absolutes as strict and unaccommodating as mathematics itself. 2 and 2 equals 4, to the exclusion of all other possibilities regardless of how you feel about the narrowness of that view. In like manner, man is justified by accepting Christ, to the absolute exclusion of all other possibilities. That Christ came to die while we were sinners is evidence of God’s grace and love, but that He restricts redemption to that one narrow path alone reveals Him to be pretty narrow…….you might even say, “fundamental.”
Posted by Clarke Beasley on March 27th, 2010.
I don’t intend on taking a lot of time at the moment, but:
Human science can be faulty. What seems logical and true can be refuted and changed in the future as we learn and understand more. At one point science said the world was flat. I believe I will trust God on the issue of creation.
Grace is a wonderful thing. Without Christ’s sacrifice, we would all be doomed. However, it doesn’t negate the ten commandments or God’s laws. Grace makes up the difference.
Yes, there were / are people who confuse personal preferences / the way they were brought up with God’s laws. In those situations, we are free to do what we choose. However, we should still use some caution on things that can cause a brother to stumble. I would rather skip those if possible than to cause a brother to go to hell. Also, grace is not meant to give us carte blanche to keep doing what we want, it is to supplement our doing our best to live by His law and makes up the difference when as humans we fall short.
Even IF you agree with the above and don’t mean for people to take it as letting them do what they want, many people think of grace as a get out of hell free card. It is in the sense that Christ paid the price and we just need to REPENT and accept it, but bear in mind the repent part. That means to be sorry and not do it again OR if we eventually fall again, get up and try again. NOT do as we darn well please thinking we have a free pass. Yes, many how follow Christ and receive grace WANT to please Him, but there are others who are looking for loopholes who simply want to do what they want to do, but not go to hell OR simply want to justify to themselves and others what they are doing. It doesn’t work that way.
So, God gives us a way to have a relationship with Him without trying to earn our way to Heaven, following a set of rules we simply cannot keep the entirety of, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t to put effort in. Well so much for not taking long.
Posted by quartet-man on March 27th, 2010.
[...] recent post “Thoughts on Starting a New (Christian) Life” has generated a lot of good comments and discussion. A couple of commenters have shared some [...]
Posted by A Mind At Play — Feedback: Abortion, Obama, and Political Solutions on March 27th, 2010.
Dear Ken – thanks for directing me to this post, via the BioLogos blog. I very much appreciate your comments and your thoughtful reflections – your story is powerful and your unfortunate church experience too common. I am happy that you have founc a new church home.
Posted by Douglas Swartzendruber on April 13th, 2010.
Great post, Ken. I was raised in a semi-fundamentalist church, myself, and before leaving, I found myself going through many of the dilemmas you yourself have listed. I’m glad that you could get closer to God for it. Fundamentalism has just become a farce.
Posted by Jordan on April 13th, 2010.
Thanks for the post, Ken. As a recovering fundamentalist (of sorts—having three Ph.D. chemists in the immediate family has always made the YEC position untenable!), I’ve found that many of my other friends, once they break free from the spiritual oppression that goes along with fundamentalism, really do need to recover. Grace is a funny thing, and 15 years later I’m still discovering just how deep and wide that grace extends, even into places in my psyche where I’m unwittingly holding on to rules and regulations for pleasing God.
But like any recovery program, it’s definitely worth continuing to work through.
Let me ask you this: why Lutheran? I’m wondering largely because I’m feeling a tug in my own life toward a more liturgical, less revivalist, more communal, less individualistic version of “doing church”. Do you have a post that talks less about your path away from fundamentalism and more about your path towards becoming a Lutheran?
Thanks again.
Posted by pcg on April 13th, 2010.
Good post. Thanks for pointing me to it. I am hoping my beliefs don’t force me to find a new church. We recently had a class on creationism and I just sat there quietly knowing if I said what I thought it would not be well received. Reading the creationist material had me shaking my head. Much of it was half truths. And some of it was straight out lies. I hope my church will be more accepting of my beliefs than yours was.
Posted by Edge on April 13th, 2010.
My church reminds me a little of what you’re talking about. Beer drinking is fine, but when I spend time with church friends, I find myself tiptoeing around the facts that I believe in evolution, voted for Obama, and play D&D (I’m not sure about the last one, but I don’t want to find out in a wave of condemnation).
My Christian college friends I can butt heads with–and do all the time. But I don’t feel like there’s any way to talk about these things with my church friends without undermining our relationships.
Posted by katz on April 14th, 2010.
saw your post on biologos. I am seriously ready to give it all up. my mother sent me a letter saying its ‘all or nothing’ meaning if you don’t believe in genesis 6 days adam/eve/snake then its nothing. well I’d rather take nothing than believe a lie. she did bring up a good point, why believe in any nonsensical miracles with NO proof whatsoever?
Posted by riverrunner on April 14th, 2010.
Ken,
Thanks for sharing your experiences. I’m just entering a similar phase in my own life. I’m optimistic that I’ll be able to stay in my own church, but your dealings with fellow members was a reminder that it may not always be easy.
Posted by thumbnail on April 26th, 2010.
Riverrunner, Christian faith is based on the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, not Genesis. We believe in miracles on the basis of Jesus’ resurrection, for which God’s divine action of raising Jesus from the dead is the best explanation for the events surrounding his crucifixion – facts such as that he was crucified, buried, appeared to his disciples, James, and Paul. Here’s a good article to get you started. http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5351
Posted by Kyle on April 26th, 2010.
I stumbled here from a link on Biologos. It may comfort you to know that you’re describing a version of Christianity that’s very much limited by geography and politics. “Only in America” as they say. There are Christians all over the world who don’t have to deal with these issues. I’m astonished you put up with this spiritual micromanagement at all, let alone for so long.
Here in Britain there are three main political parties – well two, and a smaller one. The idea that Christians can support only one of these parties would seem bizarre. We don’t mix faith and politics much. Our press reported Obama’s healthcare reforms as the best thing your government had done for decades.
A belief in literal Creationism is rare in England and not supported by the mainstream church. Our leading churchman, the Archbishop of Canterbury, has described a literal belief in Genesis as a “category error”.
From outside the thing that’s most puzzling about American churches is this link with the Republican party. Here Christians come in all political shades. I found this Biologos quote illuminating:
“millions of conservative Christians in the United States read the Bible through a variety of American perspectives that are utterly foreign to the biblical text. And they read the Bible in this way because they so often identify the kingdom of God with the United States of America. Based on that conviction, many confuse the principles of the Bible with the principles of the Constitution, biblical morality with capitalism, defense of the Christian religion with militarism, and fidelity to the kingdom of God with patriotism.”
http://biologos.org/blog/compromised-christians/
Posted by Sophie, England on May 10th, 2010.